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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  February 6, 2013 5:00pm-6:00pm EST

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next. ♪ war on drones. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. just a day before the president's chief counterterrorism adviser john brennan heads to capitol hill for his confirmation hearing to take over the cia, the white house has to answer some tough questions about its overseas drone program. the catalyst is a leaked white house memo obtained by nbc's michael isikoff that justifies in certain cases attacks on american citizens abroad. the white house has forced strong criticisms from advocates over the drone policy. ron wyden tweeted today every american has the right to know when the government believes it is allowed to kill them. what's surprising people is how much most americans seem to
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casually accept this as the cost of doing business in a dangerous world. eugene robbins is a columnist and david corn is from mother jones. both are msnbc political analysts. let's take a look here at ed carney, the president's spokesman, talk about this. it was a briefing today and carney defended the president's position on drones but also faced some tough questions. let's listen. >> i won't talk about specific instances, but the fact is that the methods that we use are designed specifically to avoid civilian casualties. i think it's fair to say that far fewer civilians lose their lives in an effort to go after senior leadership in al qaeda along the lines we were discussing here as opposed to an effort to invade a country with hundreds of thousands of troops and take towns. >> why are you dancing around the question of whether or not
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we kill civilians? why won't the government admit? >> i don't think i'm dancing around it. i didn't dispute it. >> you didn't necessarily -- >> what i can't do -- >> civilians have been killed, right? >> i don't disagree with that. >> okay, gene. you've written about this. you're on the inside of their thinking. what are they saying besides that about why we have to use drones? >> first of all that people ought to be asking questions. because this is the way it is now and not the way it used to be. and they say, look. we have to do counterterrorism. we didn't ask to, but we have to. we've come very close to some serious attacks, and the capabilities of drones now are such that this is our best weapon. so they think they absolutely have to use drones. but there are a lot of questions that ought to be asked. and one of them is should there be some sort of judicial
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oversight, something like the fisa court? >> yeah. doesn't that throw the hot potato to another individual who has to make judgment and that person would be appointed as well. >> especially when you're talking about a u.s. citizen, i think it's not unreasonable to say and it would be my opinion that there ought to be another set of eyes on it. and of course it's at the white house. you can convince yourself of a lot of things. >> i understand this. look. here's the question. it seems we have a limited arsenal of what to do. we find out somewhere in yemen or saudi or somewhere in the world, pakistan for example, we understand there's an activity that's basically a group of people putting together a plan to attack us. we have three means of stopping that. we can use the drones which are amazing. we can use a s.e.a.l. team attack. men go in and attack and kill people then leave by helicopter i guess. or invade the country and go to war. or you do nothing.
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i don't know anybody in either political party of any persuasion that down the road will be able to stand up and say i knew the enemy was planning stuff, i knew who they were, i refused to ask because i was squeamish. in the end you have to choose. you have to choose something to do. >> this week particularly we're rolling a couple of different issues together. there's the issue of whether to use a drone to attack an american civilian. that's what the memo was about that our pal mikist cough revealed. >> where are are you on that? >> i think the memo did not make a strong enough case on imminence -- as long as there's one informed high level official, that's not good enough. i'm with gene. you got to have -- >> what about the principle? do we have the right to kill a person who's decided to be against their country? do we have the right? >> i think if you find someone operationally involved in terrorist activity or terrorist group that is active and has the ability to strike, yes.
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it's a high standard. >> in other words, a soldier on the other side. >> not someone who's just a propagandist but someone involved in some operational way -- >> so to the blog sites somewhere in the world that's putting anti-american attitudes, you can't kill them. >> no. >> on the issue of principle, did we have the right to kill benedict arnold? >> sure. and the case is in yemen, the american citizen who was planning attacks who had plotted at least a couple that we know of, very active. high ranking in al qaeda. and we killed him with a drone. so i shed no tears for him. and i think nobody else does. the fact he's an american citizen doesn't bother me. what does bother me is bit, though, is that there's no structure. there's no process that goes beyond the -- >> what abuse are you concerned about? gene? >> well, look. >> let's say it's a murky case. it's a cleric, just a
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propagandist. if it's that, you wouldn't go along with that. >> you can have the highest regard for the people in the white house. president obama, brennan. but you can realize they're only going to be there for three more years. we're setting precedence. this is the way warfare is going to be. this is the way counterterrorism is going to be. this is a weapon. they make the point that this is a flexible, very useful, valuable weapon that -- >> what's wrong with trusting the judgment of people around obama and not trusting the judgment or the values of people around saying dick cheney? >> you can't take it back. >> if you give the power to -- if you give the power to this president, then you expect the next president to have more powers. so you need something to frame. and i would say the case about the american citizens is very kind of an outliar. it's going to happen from time to time. that's not the core of this. i commend everybody to read the front page story of "the new
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york times" about the use of drones -- >> let's go the difference between a drone attack and a s.e.a.l. attack? what's the difference? a manned and unmanned attack? there's more americans getting killed obviously. >> if you read "the new york times" story this morning, it talks about instances where clerics who wanted to work with the united states got killed in the same attack and the amount of resentment that's being engendered. >> what do we do? >> what do you do? perhaps in some cases you have to put more of your own blood at risk and go in with a s.e.a.l. attack where there is less possibility of getting it wrong or having collateral damage. >> how would you judge that -- no, david. you're sitting here. what would you do if you were president or a commander in chief, same thing, or general or cia director. and you choose whether we send in 20 guys, we're going to lose 5 or 10. if we use a drone, we'll kill
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five family members. >> commanders make those decisions all the time. and they're damn difficult to make. if you look at what's happening in yemen now, you have whole villages that literally watch the drones for days above them. and they see them as signals and messages of america power or arrogance and they realize that they're going to come down and strike somebody there. and it may hit them as well. and that has a real potential -- >> where is that happening right now? >> in yemen. you've got to weigh those things in. >> gene? >> i'm somewhat less concerned about what has happened today than what's going to happen in the future. and i really think that's -- so my issue is not so much that the decision was made to go after ai law key. >> what should be the protocol? >> i think what they do is fine but there should be something like the fisa court that can -- look.
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as a practical matter, it's going to rubber stamp most of what the white house wants to do. >> and this would be like going to a judge for a warrant. >> right. there can be an outlier. there can be a case in which -- >> the interesting thing -- >> a dispassionate observer decides, you know, this is not fairly right. this is too close a call. and i would like -- >> you would like to have a dialogue where someone says are you sure there's an actual terrorist plot here? your intelligence could be your standard? >> there's a whole conversation about imminence and what does imminence mean. and i get imminence doesn't mean the hijackers are boarding the planes. it's way ahead of that. but there's -- >> there's a benefit to having a fisa court too.
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i know people that worked on the fisa court. it makes the people coming to the court -- this is when you get wiretaps. it makes them do their job better. they have to meet certain standards. >> i like this. we're raising a lot of questions here. one is is there a terrorist attack at foot? is there an american involved? and how do you trade off civilian casualties, collateral damage if you want to call it that, and american casualties? mike rogers chair of the house intelligence committee defended the president today and he's a republican. he said that anwar allah key zvshed to be killed. and he countered the criticism that there's no oversight of the program. let's listen to him. >> this is somebody who had said that he didn't want his u.s. citizenship anymore. he had officially joined al qaeda. al qaeda he did claired war on the united states. once you made that choice, you
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no longer get the protections you would. if you've joined the enemy overseas, you've joined the enemy overseas and we're going to fight them. we have oversight into it. i knew about the operations. the targeting sets all of that leading up to it including very shortly thereafter. and i review all of the air strikes that we use under this title of the law. >> well, that's a good interview for andrea to get that guy. he says once the guy's turned and it's manifestly so, it's easier for us. it's easier for us. >> it is. but it's not just about policy. it is about procedures. and so the memo yesterday had a lot of troubling aspects to it. as we talked about yesterday throughout the network. and so if you want to do these things and if you could make a good argument, then you should have a good procedure that reinforces that so there is some what of a semblance -- >> tomorrow john brennan, will he hit on this tomorrow? >> you'll hear a lot about this on the hearings. i don't think he'll get beat up that much.
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but people will ask questions they ought to ask. he has talked about this to the extent he can. >> there's one big issue described by people in the white house. >> i'd trust you running a fisa court. i would. i'm not sure just some judge doing family court -- i want to know the person that has sensitivity about what america needs for its defense and what we need to protect our constitution. both. >> it's just having an unbudsman type person overseeing this saying bring me better intelligence, let's double check. and in some administrations you can trust that perhaps more than in others. so it's good to have an independent look. >> i'd like to see a strong leech of dick cheney. >> i know. he'll be back. >> you got a good briefing. you don't need a briefing. when we come back, the republican party's rebuilding year. joe scarborough is struggling
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with trying to rebuild the party. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it? gave it greater horsepower and class-leading 38 mpg highway... advanced headlights... and zero gravity seats? yeah, that would be cool. introducing the completely reimagined nissan altima. it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. now get a $199-per-month lease on the 2013 nissan altima.
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welcome back to "hardball." in football they call it a rebuilding year. it's when the coaches and school fathers know they have graduated too many seniors and have too many untested freshmen on the return team. could we say the post-mitt romney republicans are in the same boat? they're not expected to win soon especially if hillary runs but
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do need a rebuild their party for the long hall. it's thought if they don't clean up their image they're headed for years of defeat in elections. look at the proposals we're seeing now. karl rove wants to keep the fringies. and things like clinton did with school uniforms. and tell college students the jobs might be tough. what about the gun issue? should the republicans stick with the nra or tell wayne lapierre to get a real job? how could a party built other the decades on the people who left the democrats abandon those issues that attracted the rule south and the west people and the miners and the ranchers and the gun owners. and the people furious about immigration. how do you ban those people and keep a party? tonight an expert, a passionate believer that politics can get better. my colleague joe scarborough. here's the question. how do you keep this huge tent the republican party has built in the last 30 or 40 years with people from the south, the west, the miners, the ranchers, the
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religious right, all those people that have decided the republican party is their natural home and yet you have people in the fringe costing you your image. >> well, you've got to stand up to people on the fringe. you know, when parties go extreme they get roundly defeated. it happened to democrats in 1984. it happened to the republican neocons on 2006. it happened in the off-year elections back in 2010. americans thought democrats went too far to the left, and they punished them and to almost historic proportions in that election. but 2012, republicans got punished because they were the party of todd akin instead of the party of colin powell. they were the party of richard mourdock instead of the party of george h.w. bush. he wanted nothing to do with except that a guy like powell is necessary if you're going have
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two wings. chris, we've lost five out of the last six popular votes in presidential races. and a lot of the reason why is because we've had a lot of discord voices to the extreme that first left the democratic party because they became too extreme starting in 1968. >> let's talk about the leadership issue. let's take something like the gun issue. i think the gun issue is very tough. i am despondent to the point of believing there are so many guns in existence right now, i don't know how you stop the water fall that's been going on for generations. wayne lapierre, he took some heat on fox news over the web video that mentioned the president's daughter. listen to this. i think some people are going to say wayne lapierre still has the hammer lock on people from pennsylvania, indiana, ohio. right across the country to the far west except maybe california and new york and connecticut. you don't want to go to the war
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with the nra. what do you make of that? should they stay arm in arm with the nra? go on semiautomatics but maybe challenge them on background checks? where do you draw the line on the right there? >> well, there's some things the republicans have to do if they want to play smart. they're going to have to go after gun trafficking. there's a good bipartisan bill on the house floor. and republicans need to get on board on that or they're going to be punished even to the off-year elections. they need to get on board with universal registration. wayne lapierre agreed with that in 1999. and many agree with that. >> on background checks. >> yes. universal background checks. >> not registration. you'll pay for that tomorrow morning. >> i'm actually paying for it right now. no. it was -- but universal background checks is something that 91% of americans support.
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it's something the republicans n need to embrace. and if the republicans do just those two things, they can say they're responding not only to what's happening in sandy hook but what's happening in chicago every night, what's happening across america every night. >> let me try this. it seems the two party played roles. it's not the mommy and daddy party. the fact that republicans were good on national defense and law and order and capital punishment, all the tough guy stuff. it seems the two parties still have advantages in what they can do that the other can't do. can the republican party put teeth in an immigration reform bill? you really will have guest workers. you will have the parts that work economically and will give some enforcement power to it. not just the nice stuff of letting people become citizens over time. why don't the two parties put -- the republicans put the teeth in, the democrats put the bennys
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in it. >> it makes sense, doesn't it? you can say the same thing about entitlement reform, national defense. there are things the republican party can do to differentiate themselves from the democratic party, but we're not going to win elections if we continue to be like i said before, the party of todd akin or richard mourdock. >> is karl rove right? you have to be gate keepers, people like party chairs, big fund raisers. >> of course. of course they are. but i don't know that karl rove after his performance in 2012 should be the gate keeper. he was inside the bubble as much as anybody else so much so that he melted down on election night. you know, it was almost like trying to get james brown off the stage. you had to keep going out there saying it's over. it's over. >> into a superstar. that's all i know. that was one night she won the battle. >> she won the battle there. but you need somebody like haley barbour who understands in '93
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and '94 had to rebuild the party. haley barbour who would come on our show with other people wouldn't embrace olympia snow. even on jim jeffert's most liberal day -- it's pretty simple. we got to do what we do in alabama when it comes to football. we've got to realize it's about winning. this electoral process, it's not a primal screen therapy. it's not about screaming and yelling and talk about all of your resentments and feeling good about yourself. it's about what i say every day on the show. not just winning in northwest florida but winning the suburbs of philadelphia. how do you do that? you don't do that by defending the survivalist wing of the nra. you don't do that by debating contraception which was taken care of by the court in '65. you don't do that by obsessing on small ball.
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you do it be focusing on winning. only people like haley barbour it seems in this republican party lately have figured out how to do that. we've lost five of the six last elections when it comes to poplar vote. it's well past time for us to get our act together and start obsessing over winning elections again. >> read all the books you can on wende we knndell wilke. he's you. who i think define what is you just talked about. a reasonable man who said hitler's our enemy. get ready to fight him. no messing around. thank you. >> right. thank you, chris. >> tomorrow morning you start at 6:00 eastern for three big hours of "morning joe." up next, a little spat between the governors of the two biggest states. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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back to "hardball." governor's spat featuring the two big ones. texas and california. started when rick perry released a radio ad trying to lure california business owners to texas. >> building a business is tough, but i hear building a business in california is next to impossible. this is texas governor rick perry, and i have a message for california businesses. come check out texas. >> well, jerry brown, the governor of california, dubbed perry's $24,000 tv ad the smallest entry into the media market of california. i think it is. he also said this. >> it's not a burp. it's barely a fart. >> thank you. >> his word, not mine. it's not the first time jerry brown has taken it from a new kid on the block. last year chris christie told
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voters they picked a retread in brown. >> not as much hair. i've slowed down a bit but i ran three miles in 29 minutes two nights ago. i hereby challenge governor christie to a three mile race, push-up contest, and a chinup contest. i have no doubt of the outcome. >> well, next. ready to meet the assemblyman who missed the memo on how not to speak about gun control. while americans are eantitled t have strong opinions, there is also language that is inappropriate in any discussion. the supporters of gun control are doing something aikin to what hitler's germany did to
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strip citizens of guns in the run-up to the second world war. here's steve mclaughlin yesterday frustrated with how quickly the gun control bill was passed. >> we're told to shupt up and vote. that's what this is about. don't question it. just vote. that's the message here. hitler would be proud. mussolini would be proud of what we did here. but that's not democracy. >> there you have it. a few hours later he released a video apology calling his statement an honest mistake. finally, republicans refusing to attend president obama's state of the union address georgia congressman paul broun for example typically stays in his office hooked to his twitter account. where will steve pierce be during the address? his announcement yesterday, public hearing on the chicken is the same day of the state of the
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union. pearce will be attending a meeting on a chicken to the endangerered species list. and their top staffers would rather forget. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. i'm lorenzo. i work for 47 different companies. well, technically i work for one. that company, the united states postal service®, works for thousands of home businesses. because at®, you can pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. i can even drop off free boxes. i wear a lot of hats. well, technically i wear one. the u.s. postal service®, no business too small.
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cnbc market wrap. the dow turns around for the day ending up seven points. the s&p basically flat. nasdaq fell by three. disney shares hit an all-time high earlier following a better than expected earnings report tuesday. meanwhile, the cable operator liberty global is buying virgin media for $16 billion. and green mountain shares coffee makers said they were down 10%.
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after-hours they've come back a bit. earnings came in in line, but its sales forecast disappointed. and that's it from cnbc first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." we may have just seen president obama inaugurated a second time. here at "hardball" we're reminiscing about the 2012 election campaign whether it was the carpet bombing of newt gingrich and the iowa airwaves or romney's 47% comments i think cost him the election. or the debate that didn't cost president obama the election. our own chuck todd got the inside scoop from campaign operatives of both sides who shared the uh-oh moments. they had a different word for it. let's start with the republican primaries. top romney advisers described the points at which they thought uh-oh.
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here it is. >> the oh s moment for my was south carolina. it put newt in the drivers seat for a period of time and forced us to go into florida. >> there were some big states that cost a lot of money to put up on tv. there were moments in the campaign where we took our bank down close to zero. >> the night that we lost denver or colorado, minnesota, and missouri. because it was just totally oh s. another month of this really? >> losing michigan would not have been a positive experience. we went into an expensive state. and it was a state that had a lot of symbolic ghosts. and it was really hand to hand. >> here we are to walk down memory lane with us joan walsh. salon's editor at large.
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and msnbc political analyst crawly. let's go to joan. this is joy through others' tragedy. everybody loves that. here you have a butterfly collection. flattened out butterflies of things that went wrong. i have to be reminded here the first sign that romney wasn't such a great candidate for president was he was losing consistency to people like newt gingrich and rick santorum who know one would have ever thought of running for president. and still could never get into their heads they could imagine them as president. yet republican primary and caucus voters were choosing them rather than this good looking guy with credentials. something must have been wrong with him. >> right. watching his advisers it's like they never registered that. like you said they carpet bombed newt. the fact that newt came back and hit them hard. >> like freddy krueger. >> right. came back like freddy krueger
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like he always does seemingly. but newt and rick perry did unveil the bain attacks. they did romney's work on one hand, but there was a way to say perry and gingrich isn't going to win. but they are both revealing something disturbing about your candidate and we better get a story ready. we better figure out how to counter that. they never figured out how to counter it until election day. >> one winning strategy for the obama campaign, an uh-oh moment for team romney was to define romney early when he was in primary mode. while the romney campaign was raising tons of cash in the late spring and early summer, they were legally barred from using it until the general elections. obama going after romney, romney unable to respond because of election law. >> during this period we were raising a lot of money, but it wasn't all money that we could immediately send out the door. >> the donors would call saying
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why aren't you on tv? i was saying let me explain what money we can use. very frustrating to us. >> one of the biggest decisions we made was to bet on the front end of the campaign. in the month of october, ads mean much less because there's so much coverage. debates are so dominant. and that we had an imperative which was to define the race and frankly to define mitt romney before the conventions. and that, you know, it was better to -- it was a hilarious proposition to bet on a -- take money out of september and october, put it into may, june, and july. so the other big thing that happened in june was we started running ads about mitt romney. >> so one thing, michael, it's one thing to say you spent a lot of money and time in the beginning defining he was a rich guy not caring about people. then to come along completing the alley-oop with the 47%
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comment. >> he said too much has been made of the idea that the obama campaign was hitting rearview mirror in the spring and summer. that the numbers were actually pretty stable. but i think what they did was they kind of set up as you say, they kind of dug a trap that he ended up walking into. so did they decide the race? did they crush and destroy romney in that interrag numb before he was able to spend his own money because of campaign finance restrictions? no. they didn't completely destroy him. what they did was they set him up. >> the alley-oop play. that's when one of the players throws the ball up high over the net and the tall guy at the post, he jumps up in the air and stuffs that baby down and makes sure everybody sees. it's great. who can forget that first debate? that's one you and i can't forget in denver, joan.
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he stunned his supporters and gave me a disaster in my brain. let's look at mitt romney. he might have made a lot of obama supporters say uh-oh. it didn't hurt his poll numbers though according to jim messina. the first debate apparently didn't register heavily in the polling. let's take a look. >> it changed the structure of the race. and we saw that our polling. people who may have closed their mind to governor romney suddenly reopened it. and it made for a much better october than september. because in september we were dealing with the fallout. from the 47% video. >> what we saw in our internal numbers was they got back what they lost from the 47%. we never went behind. we never went down less than -- never went -- our lead never shrunk less than two and a half points. we were pretty sure we were okay the entire time. >> joan and michael, it's a key
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question. i didn't know this. i thought obama had dropped below after that bad performance. is that your reading? he never really lost the lead even though he had a bomb of a night in denver? >> i'm not going to call john a liar. the polls i looked at it in the swing states, he did fall behind. when you're within the margin of error, you have a lot of anxious people. i think lots of national democrats and local democrats are going to say we probably spent a lot of money and a lot of energy that we would have spent on, you know, house races or senate races. he took a beating in the polls. maybe didn't fall under. >> but i think he's wrong and you're right. i'm right. i think it almost killed him. one more night like that, he would have lost the race. thank you michael crowley from time magazine and joan walsh from salon. turning to the far right to find candidates for the senate. this time it's paul broun the guy who called evolution a lie from the pit of hell.
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he's running in georgia, probably win down there. that's good for the ds. this is "hardball," the place for politics. are probably gonna double. but, dad, you've got... [ voice of dennis ] allstate. with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second.
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we all work remotely so this is a big deal, our first full team gathering! i wanted to call on a few people. ashley, ashley marshall... here. since we're often all on the move, ashley suggested we use fedex office to hold packages for us.
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great job. [ applause ] thank you. and on a protocol note, i'd like to talk to tim hill about his tendency to use all caps in emails. [ shouting ] oh i'm sorry guys. ah sometimes the caps lock gets stuck on my keyboard. hey do you wanna get a drink later? [ male announcer ] hold packages at any fedex office location. riding the dog like it's a small horse is frowned upon in this establishment! luckily though, ya know, i conceal this bad boy underneath my blanket just so i can get on e-trade. check my investment portfolio, research stocks...
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wait, why are you taking... oh, i see...solitary. just a man and his thoughts. and a smartphone... with an e-trade app. ♪ nobody knows... [ male announcer ] e-trade. investing unleashed. we're back. if you want to appreciate how big a challenge the would be rebranders of the republican party face, consider this. the fringies, the characters who live in the fever swamps of birtherisms who claim president obama isn't an american, isn't a christian, who say global warming is a hoax and talk about legitimate rape. these people with the base of the republican party. one is paul broun, he's a republican from georgia who's decided now to run for the u.s. senate from that state. that's a gift many people believe to democrats. his extreme right wing views might give them, the democrats, a real chance to win a seat in a red georgia. joining me now is the genius and
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cocreator of the daily show lynn winn stead and laura ashburn. i'd like both of you to listen to some of paul broun's greatest hits then i want your reaction. let's listen. >> obama himself has zero experience in private sector. he's never had a private job. he's always worked in the public sector. he thinks government needs to produce everything. government needs to control everything. there's a word for that. socialism. he's a marxist. >> fellow patriots, we have a lot of domestic enemies of the constitution and they're right down the mall in the congress of the united states. and right down independence avenue in the white house of the -- that belongs to us. come to understand all that stuff i was taught about evolution and embryology and big bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell.
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and it's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior. it's not about my ability to hunt, which i love to do. it's not about the ability for me to protect my family, my property against criminals. which we have the right to do. but it's about -- it's all about us protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government of the united states. >> well, the challenge for the creative people and i was just talking to joe scarborough, it's a challenge. how do you look at the people way out there that don't feel confident in the democratic party and now the republican. you can't run these people because you're nuts. >> right. >> i don't think people want to vote for a party that wouldn't accept them as candidates. just get an old groucho marx
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line. >> if the republicans are going to start talking about their party evolving, the basic start would be to believe in evolution. so when you don't -- >> i think you're picking a point here. >> but this one saying evolution starts in the i don't understand. it's tone deafness. if you say you're going to reinvent authority. >> who is he talking to? there are people applauding it. you can't say they don't exist. >> that's exactly right. there are people who like this. there are paleo conservatives. people who believe that this person is the person to be the face of the republican party. and then you have the karl roves who are trying to bring it to the middle who just don't understand. >> see, i don't know about that. i think when you look -- i'm from minnesota.
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and when you look at -- >> you're from minnesota. >> right, sure i am. and you have steve king in iowa. >> let's look at iowa. he's right up there with this minage ree with paul brown. >> we have a very, very urban senator, barack obama, who's decided he's going to run for president. we've got to stand up and say we're not going to pay slavery reparations in the united states of america. that was over a century ago. government can sit down and decide to pay reparations with money borrowed from the chinese. >> i'm sort of a thadeus stevens type of gie, but i haven't heard that raised as an issue. who is he arking with? >> there is 15 bills before congress right now that are reparations bills.
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>> there's no money to get out. >> people are still in it. i did a story about how aetna were out to make reparations. this is still in the news. >> i think this guy, steve king, is fighting an old horse here, riding an old horse. >> when these guys get out of their bubble of their districts, you cannot tell me in iowa, king is up. king is up in iowa. >> oddly, let me ask you a simple question. you're smart. not a good guy, necessarily, but a smart guy. you're h aurks iley sbs barber. how are you going to stop them from running? >> cash. >> you give more money to another guy. i mean, money talks, right? if you don't want this guy to win and you've got the koch brothers, that's why they have a pact, right? >> here's the deal money can't buy you. athen tisty. >> they're authentic. i hate to tell you. >> they're the real thing.
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>> they're authentic to a point where if you're awe thentic in your rationality, great, it will appeal to the rational people. but when this guy says that the earth was, you know, formed 9,000 years ago and we started farming 10,000 years ago, it's insane. >> we have to come back to the fact that they have a base. people like that have been elected. >> i look at murdoch, he won, i look at o'donnell, she won. they won. that guy mike lee beat bob bennett out in utah. you knocked off a guy in indiana. they tend to win. >> but rove's candidates haven't been doing so well, either. >> no, neither have nra candidates, neither day adelson's candidates or koch's candidates. >> i want two parties where can i go into the election and decide who to vote for. >> there's reason on both sides. i want a choice.
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not an echo, i want a choice. and that's why i think that the old days, the republicans running reasonable people like that won a lot of sense. >> but this is a turning point in the republican party. >> when we return, some loving thoughts about aunt agnes. we ne prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone is ready with the know-how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready. make sure you're ready. at ♪ [ bop ] [ bop ] [ bop ]
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let me finish tonight with this. when my brothers and i were young, we had a young teenage girl to look up to. our mom's youngest sister still lived with grand mop and grandmom and other girl stuff. and that room was her room. and we, brothers, as i said, looked up to her as someone really special. she took us to movies and to malt shops, which was magical. and sometimes, she'd be called to be a babysitter. but u again, she was a teenager, kind of a slep ri to us. she'd travel with friends her age. aunt agnes was smart in school. she was the row house girl from north philly taking the subway and bus up to chestnut hill. when she had a scholarship, she gave it up. she didn't want to take it from another girl who needed it. she had other plans. she joined the convent.
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when she told her mother the decision, her mother said wait until your father hears of this. when she told grand pop, he said do what will make you happy. and she did. well, here they are, the two of them, and their old habits. mom's younger sisters. i was looking through the e-mails and here's a typical one from october. it was just after the first presidential debate when i went ballistic. on saturday, i attended a meeting of over 500 sisters. as usual, during break time, many sisters i didn't know tell me how much they appreciated "hardball." all of the talk was about the president's debate and my dramatic reaction toet performance. your viewers love your enthusiasm. so whatever show parodied your presentation missed the positive message. aunt agnes was there talking about how "saturday night live" lampooned me. as usual, you were a good sport about it. and god bless you for the poor, the we


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